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伍宇烈想問我有關舞蹈嘅十個問題 (一 & 二) 觀眾/想睇嘅舞蹈

訪問日期:2013年6月6日

之前喺 Facebook Chat 同 Yuri (伍宇烈) 講,我想登埋呢十題問題嘅答案出嚟。佢話:「ok」。我話:「at the risk of offending some people haha」。 然後,佢話:「you are risk taking type ar ma」。

其實應該問多一個問題:點解呢啲問題同答案可能會「offend some people」呢?

訪問日期:2013年6月6日

一、點解觀眾會覺得明[一個舞蹈演出]係咁重要呢?我唔係 assume 所有人都想明,但係點解我哋成日聽到有人話:「我唔明一個 ballet」,或者「我唔明一個 dance」,就 stop there 㗎呢?即係唔明好似係一個 description,或者係一個 reflection of what you just saw:「我唔明喎」。

Winnie: 以我角度咋喎,即係我唔係代表佢哋答── 因為都 impossible。就係我覺得佢[哋]睇唔到一啲… 靚嘅嘢。嗰種靚嘅嘢係… 我要 define 一下嘅。你話「明」[嘅意思]係佢[哋] rationally 最 connect 得到、最知道、最清晰,可以接收得到呢個 dance 嘅途徑。「明」同「唔明」就係佢一個 path 去 connect with 呢個 dance。但係其實… 譬如我睇到嘅,就算我唔係好明,但係我睇一啲嘢,譬如藍色咁,我知道佢背後係代表咗一啲嘢嘅。或者就咁望落去都好靚嘞,我唔駛深究佢 symbolise 啲乜嘢,我已經攞走咗啲嘢。

Yuri: 咁即係話,一個 audience 其實當佢話「唔明」,其實佢:he doesn’t know what beauty is?

Winnie: [想了想] 其中一樣囉,係嘞其中一樣。佢望唔到其他嘢 ─

Yuri: 或者 not interested in [停頓] finding ways to [be] in touch with 嗰個 beauty。係咪咁解呢?咁[講]又好似好 general,係咪呢?

Winnie: [想了想] 同埋 uncomfortable 囉對佢哋[嚟講]。Insecure (不安),即係:「唔明喎…」

Yuri: 唔。「都無 definite」嘅 …

Winnie: 即係「我想 get 到啲嘢呀」,佢 assume [要] get 到啲嘢,但係又 get 唔到喎。

Yuri: 其實我個問題,我想咁樣問,就係:點會畀呢個答案呢,畀呢個形容詞呢──「我唔明」、「我唔係好明」?當我問佢:「你覺得呢個演出點樣呢?」、「你今晚你有咩感受呢?」。「我唔係好明」── 呢個係咪一個答案嚟嘅?點解我哋咁多時候,會得到呢個答案?呢個答案係嚟自啲咩呢?咁你正話嘗試答,就係話,係嚟自某啲 insecurity (不安感)。好嘞,如果有少少 insecurity 嘅時候,我哋作為創作人,作為 [promote] theatre 嘅人,或者叫做 working in the theatre,我哋咁愛 theatre 嘅時候,what can we do,畀返呢個 insecurity 畀佢哋?咁當然有啲人就話:我哋令到佢明。[其中]一種方式,我覺得係。

Winnie: Er,我覺得係,令到佢哋知道,aware 啦或者,就算唔明,都 okay 嘅。

Yuri: 係,咁[要達到]呢[樣嘢係用]咩手法呀,可以用咩手段呀?因為我最記得,最近睇完[舞評] Natasha (Rogai) ── [強調] Natasha 嘅說話,你可以有你嘅睇法,佢話:「I really don't know what the ballet is, what the fuck it is about.」

Winnie: 邊一個 work 呀?

Yuri: 睇完《青蛙王子》呀。「I really don’t know what it’s about,但係我鍾意。」 咁佢算唔算明咗呢?因為嗱,coming from 一個 critic,又係一個朋友,又係一個咁熟嘅、咁習慣睇[舞蹈嘅人] ,咁佢咁講嘅時候… 而你 (Winnie) 有你嘅 [view] … 你嗰陣時話,佢 (《青蛙王子》) 唔係你嗰杯茶啦,首先你好似講呢樣嘢。佢唔係你[鍾意]嗰種舞蹈形式,因為佢好似講得太白吖嘛。

Winnie: 係呀。

Yuri: 咁 at the same time,因為就有人覺得:我完全唔知你講乜,但係我又okay (鍾意)。咁你 (Winnie) 嫌佢講得太白。[…] 咁即係其實,觀眾話佢唔明嘅時候,係咪即係話… 我有咩辦法令到佢明── 我令到你唔明,但係你又鍾意;我令到你明,你又覺得好有趣。仲要明之餘,又要有趣!或者仲要明之餘,仲要覺得 something else。

Winnie: 但係我想問返你,你想唔想人明先?

Yuri: 我真係無諗呢樣嘢。

Winnie: 唔、唔。咁我覺得,就唔駛諗啦。因為-

Yuri: 但係嗱,客觀嘅,[…] 應該咁講,我同你一齊睇跳舞,睇完一個作品,唔係我編嘅,咁但係你未睇過 theatre,但係你睇完個作品,[你]唔明喎,咁我可以做啲乜嘢,因為我喺呢個 business 度吖嘛。咁我係咪要解話畀佢聽,抑或我可以再一個辦法去令到佢覺得:It’s not so bad. It’s quite interesting. […] 咁呢個係一個佢本身 personality 嘅問題,抑或係我可以 do something。因為其實你可以 guide 一個人,或者去 channel 佢去 explore 一啲嘢關於個 theatre 㗎嘛。

好嘞,即係等於你問我嗰個問題,係咪畀我[好細]嘅細路仔去跳舞咋嘛。我可以令佢覺得:This is fun! This is good! 但係唔係 stupid fun 吖嘛,唔係嗰啲 pure fun 咁簡單,而係 including 有 challenging、有 fun、有 discipline、有 appreciation、有好多 beauty,好多嘢 go through 嗰樣嘢,咁嗰樣係乜呢?即係話我嘅工作係啲乜嘢嘢呢?咁我覺得好有趣嘅嗰樣嘢。即係我係咪 recognise 我要帶你去睇,我而家要帶你去睇呢樣嘢。我唔係合埋眼[叫]「去!」就去。我[係咪]要揀一樣嘢畀你睇呢?咁我有無 guarantee 呢樣嘢係會 trigger 到… through 呢一個 channel 呢,你就會進入到個 beauty of the theatre。

[…]

你就算問嗰個 director,個 director 可能今日 mood 唔好呢… [晦氣地]「點解你會唔明㗎?」咁一句說話咁「得」埋去,可能嗰個[觀眾]就會[受]刺激喇,一係就更鍾意:「嘩你好型喎!」,一係就覺得永遠唔敢再睇。You never know 㗎嘛。

[…]

用咩心態,或者 attitude 去做任何嘢呢?

Winnie: 啱啱你咁講,我諗起一樣嘢,譬如,例如啦,accounting,我唔想明佢。即係或者我會覺得:「我唔明呀!」,或者我嘗試過,但係我覺得唔係好明。又或者數學、純數咁樣,對我嚟講,我唔明。但係嗰樣嘢同藝術[相比] 又好似… 我可以唔明囉。我講完唔明就可以走。但係藝術,好似有一樣嘢,你點都會 get 到少少嘢呀。即係藝術嘅 nature… 所以 that’s why 有明唔明,同埋又有 beauty 呢個 [concept] 。

Yuri: 因為佢(藝術)有好多嘢都好 ambiguous (含糊、模稜兩可)。

Winnie: 係呀。[…]

Yuri: 但係有啲人嘅性格就係呢,佢哋一係就唔習慣,一係佢哋真係無呢樣嘢[去睇含糊嘅事物 (藝術)] 。即係我哋對數字唔敏感嘅呢,咁係我哋天生咁,定係我哋好早就 block out 咗嗰樣嘢?

Winnie: 係嘞。或者係有一個抗拒。係有個抗拒,係 consciously 咁樣抗拒,然之後話唔明囉。個口就話「唔明」,但係心裡面憎囉,唔鍾意囉。

Yuri: 咁其實佢(數字)都 touch on 咗你一啲 nerves。

Winnie: 係…

Yuri: 點解啲 nerves 咁 raw (神經過感) 呢?

Winnie: 係…

Yuri: 咁呢個我哋會唔會去面對佢呢?

二、喺香港你想睇到啲乜嘢嘅舞蹈呀?

Winnie: 唔… 劇場又好、舞蹈又好,我成日都想睇到啲顛覆性嘅嘢。Somehow 你 (Yuri) 嘅 work 係嘅,即係嗰種 spirit。嗰種顛覆,唔係話要反政府,唔係 political,係美學上又好、idea 上又好、erm… technique 啦,so-called「technique」 又好。Present 出嚟嘅方法係,有啲嘢突破,有啲嘢係 surprise 或者 shock 到我嘅。咁我就要去諗嘢。同埋… 點講,要靚嘅,但係嗰個靚呢,喺我嘅 standard 嚟講,一定 [強調] 唔係剩係嗰啲 fancy 嘢,唔係嘅。一定要 supported by meaning,underlying meaning。或者 justified by 一啲 idea 嘅。[呢一種靚]咁當然係美學上,visually 嗰種靚嘅配合啦。

Er… er… 唔想,或者講唔想,唔想睇老土嘅,即係做完唔知為咗咩而做嗰件事。係呀,你係花費咗好多呀,或者你個場係好大,啲 dancers 可能都好有水準,但係為咗啲咩呢嗰樣嘢?

Yuri: 即係睇唔到嗰個… purpose?

Winnie: [肯定] 為做而做。

即係點講呢,有好多其他唔純粹嘅 purpose,就係:commercial、因為你受咗資助,所以一定要 produce 咁多個 work 喎。Er,又要倉促地,即係… 係嘞,又要倉促地 work 一舊嘢出嚟喎,但係又未 ready 喎所有人,又對 dancers 唔好喎。 即係所有嘢係因為其他 reasons,而唔係你純粹想表達一啲嘢嗰個 reason 出發,就會 distorted (扭曲) 喇嗰樣嘢。

first published on muse blog on 30 sep 2013

http://www.musemag.hk/textpattern/winniechau/90/answers-for-yuri-s-10-questions-on-dance-a

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